Hippies/Yobs

[callum828]

Not so much a suggestion, but what exactly is the point of having hippies and yobs as two separate classes of unit? They do effectively the same thing, with one sweeping for the other. Why then must they be classed as NLT and NLD? It seems like a remnant of early bush to me. Would it not be simpler to have them as both NLD?

This is almost a response to everyone who poo-pooed my dedicated flak suggestion. The main criticism was that it was unnecessary confusion and that gardeners were adequate. If we're going by the same standard as that, having hippies and yobs as different classes of troop is more unnecessary confusion, having them as the same class would be adequate and the difference should therefore also be removed?

[f0xx]

And perhaps we should only have one route? Most routes do the same thing - kill, then why do we have different routes? It adds more confusion.

[callum828]

Originally Posted by f0xx

And perhaps we should only have one route? Most routes do the same thing - kill, then why do we have different routes? It adds more confusion.

Don't be pedantic. There's literally no difference in what hippies and yobs do, which is hardly the same for SO and Robotics, or any of the routes.

[tobapopalos]

Hippies and yobs do different things because they've always done different things. Changing it for the sake of changing it would be pointless.

And please, stop posting these ****ing ridiculous suggestions. Your suggestion on flak was shot down because it was a **** suggestion. This one is no better.

[callum828]

Originally Posted by tobapopalos

Hippies and yobs do different things because they've always done different things. Changing it for the sake of changing it would be pointless.

And please, stop posting these ****ing ridiculous suggestions. Your suggestion on flak was shot down because it was a **** suggestion. This one is no better.

So the flak suggestion was crap because introducing it would be pointless. Yet something equally pointless doesn't need changing?

Christ all I'm doing is suggesting things. I didn't expect the forum to be so reactionary. Is there anything wrong with just entertaining an idea? Every new introduction to the game faced the same criticisms, yet you can hardly say that every change since round one was bad?

You're all very hostile on here, it seems more like an old boys club than an online game. I'm starting to regret playing again.

[f0xx]

Look mate, noone is being offensive, but you have to look at the situation from our point of view. As you said yourself, you've beel playing for a short period of time, yet you feel very comfortable to make suggestions to change things which are the foundation of the game. Non lethal distractors and non lethal thugs are not the same thing, they exist for balance purposes. Removing one of the classes will lead to great disballance in the game, you realise this? This suggestion will cause more problems than it will solve.

[tobapopalos]

Originally Posted by callum828

Christ all I'm doing is suggesting things. I didn't expect the forum to be so reactionary. Is there anything wrong with just entertaining an idea? Every new introduction to the game faced the same criticisms, yet you can hardly say that every change since round one was bad?

Maybe in future you should THINK before you suggest. Think how this suggestion actually affects the game. As f0xx has already said, distracting and disabling are not the same. The result are the same, but the different targetting for units makes a big difference. Some units only target NLDs, some only target NLTs. Your suggestion is more than just changing the word from thug to distracter. It would involve changing the balance of the game. Hippies target NLTs and yobs target NLDs. Which one do you want them changing to? Would yobs become NLDs? If so, do you change the targetting of hippies from INN/NLT to INN/NLD? That would make hippies target other hippies.

Yes, I'm reactionary. I react when I read bullshit on forums. It's like a reflex.

[harriergirl]

I would direct you to the help and support section of the forums, so you can ask questions like.

Whats the difference between h/y and how are they used.
What are the different types of flak and is there any benefit to one over another ?

how bout asking and learning before assuming you know enough about something to change it.

[Alcibiades]

Originally Posted by tobapopalos

Yes, I'm reactionary. I react when I read bullshit on forums. It's like a reflex.

toby, tana and f0xx are perfectly correct.

And toby gets +1,283,987,345,098,712,348,765,098,723,456 internets for his hilarious comment. in fact **** it, he can have all the internets.

[callum828]

Actually I used to play a lot, I'm by no means a new player. Seriously though, what's the difference between NLT and NLD, apart from them being targetted by different units? What does the difference actually add to the game?

I also find it quite amusing how smug you all are when the game is sinking and membership is the lowest it's ever been. All that while Azzer is having to chastise the top players for ruining the game with power-blocks.

I honestly wouldn't expect that people on TSR would be more civil than here, how old are you people?

[pinpower]

The problem with this and your flak selection for me is that neither is needed...it just wouldnt help/bring anything to the game in any way and would actually overcomplicate things.

Balancing is one of the hardest (at least i'd assume it is) parts of Azzers job game-side, and it takes rounds and rounds to slowly tweak units so they work just right with each other, thats why each round there is usually the odd init/stats/targetting change in units that might have been around for years....By changing hippies and yobs to both NLD or NLT would screw up alot of that balancing and would take a long time to get right again.

I know some people can be a bit quick to condemn someone when they make a suggestion that is percieved as bad but it is good for people to come out and voice their ideas even if they turn out to not be doable/practical etc.

I think the more important thing to remember when you think about posting a suggestion is: Is it actually needed? Is it going to bring anything to the game? How will it affect the major concepts of the game? (But primarily the first one )

Dont be put off, if you have an idea and you think its worthy of posting go for it!

[Alcibiades]

Originally Posted by callum828

Actually I used to play a lot, I'm by no means a new player.
I also find it quite amusing how smug you all are when the game is sinking and membership is the lowest it's ever been. All that while Azzer is having to chastise the top players for ruining the game with power-blocks.

As for you being an experienced or 'older' player, surely you should know better than to post some of your suggestions of late? I hate to be an asshole, but you should really, really really know better.

With all due respect, we've been smug for as long as we've been playing. To address your further complaints, you haven't touched upon the core reasons this game has low membership or why the game is sinking. it doesn't have anything to do with flak units, with NLD/NLT or whatever other madness is cooking up there in your brain. Insanely high activity, the decline of text based games, a unique game format which requires a new player to learn a *whole lot* all of that contributes.

pinpower is correct, as are several other posters in other threads you've written in, and in many you haven't been involved in. Change is not always positive. Change for the sake of change is not positive and simply because *you* don't understand why something exists, does not mean it should be changed.

[timtadams]

Originally Posted by callum828

Actually I used to play a lot, I'm by no means a new player. Seriously though, what's the difference between NLT and NLD, apart from them being targetted by different units? What does the difference actually add to the game?

They add another dimension to game.

The reason we rejected the flak unit is because it unnecessarily complicates things. The tutorial is a better way of helping newcomers.

If you want NLT and NLD to be the same then you just reduce the depth of the game. The targetting of units is important and essential in the planning of attacks.
For example Bikers target purely NLD primarily to make the POM route 'mortal' so to speak. However this prevents them from taking advantage of other routes with specific NLT units, such as small droids. Also, the effect of bikers could be reduced simply by defending with masses of small droids to flak the protesters. So it also helps to balance the routes.

We like to simplify, but not at a sacrifice.

If we were to make them the same it would make things simpler, but at a sacrifice.

[willymchilybily]

Originally Posted by callum828

Don't be pedantic. There's literally no difference in what hippies and yobs do, which is hardly the same for SO and Robotics, or any of the routes.

hippies stop more armour and less health yobs stop more health and less armour. yobs fire late than hippies to sweep. they are different, point one.

point to if your question was more generalised and thats how it seems to have been interpreted,

these units target nlt:
nanobot
political briber
guru
leaders
PA's
serf
violent demons
witch
hippiy

these target nld:
autos
bikers
marine
nanobot
political briber
guru
leaders
scrap bot
yob.

now if u look at what targets what having all those classes the same would cause problems as pa's would immidiately be very overpowered as they can kill the defence's h/y last tick, bikers would now also be riddiculous and could help attacking certain routes.

imagine a solo ranger his only flack stopping is his hippy and yobs with flammers to sweep. a few mill pa's kills his h/y b4 the harriers fire) easy land at a slight cost.


also most importantly for me. at the moment not much that actively targets nlts and goes for armour heavily or fires all three ticks. this gives hooligans good survivability in a big battle to do that extra bit of armour stripping for tl's/witches etc etc. and now all of a sudden nanobots can do 50% damage to both y/h and any nld/nlt. considering they are pretty tough once again kind of imbalances the route. point being

like it has been said. everything as it is, is set up so everything has a different function. if everything was the same and there was only one route (i know not the original suggestion) then the game no longer has tactics its just about ammassing as big an army as possible.

which does help. but if u dont know how to use that army to exploit others then your never gonna enjoy the game on the level at which it can be played

[Garrett]

can I get a dedicated flak blocking unit?

hippys sit around and smoke all day. yobs just chav it up in ball parks.

There needs to be a unit for everyone that is able to stop wheelies/thieves even before techs are out.

I suggest we have a blocker unit that blocks stuff.